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 RBS PPI Claim After Trust Deed - 2019
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MrBlue32
New Member

5 Posts

Posted - 18 September 2021 :  15:18:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I recently rejected the RBS proposal letter and clearly explained my reasons why.
Yesterday i received the following letter

"We refer to our previous correspondence in which the bank set out its position on the payment of your PPI redress. This is a position which has been adopted following careful consideration of the relevant judgments of the Court of Session, and detailed legal advice.

We will not instigate any legal action for reduction of your trust deed. You remain free to raise court proceedings to try and recover the PPI redress. If you do so, as indicated previously, the bank will defend the claim and reduce the discharge of your trust deed as part of its defence. The bank's position as set out in previous correspondence is non-negotiable.
Please note that we will not correspond further with you on this and consider this matter at close

Yours sincerely
PPI Team"

Is that the door closed for me on this? I don't have funds to raise a court action.

In my previous letter to the bank, i raised the fact that they have ignored previous letters that i have sent. They have been mis-leading throughout this process. I asked them to provide evidence as to why they would think the court would side with the bank, when my case is almost mirrored to the Donnelly case and as usual they have failed to acknowledge any question that i put to them in my original letters or provide any evidence to back up their claim.

Should i try with the ombudsman or write to my MSP?

Thanks


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dev61
Contributor

10 Posts

Posted - 19 September 2021 :  12:30:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Mr Blue32
I don't think anyone should be giving up on this or allowing the door to close.
RBS/Natwest are wrong.
That is why I have contacted the First Ministers Office who directed me to my SNP MP.
This is a scandal they should not be allowed to do, and I feel the more MP's who have this on their desk the more focus will be on our complaint.

I cannot afford to take RBS/Natwest to Court either, but I am not going to stop fighting. I feel anyone who takes them to Court, will have a very good chance of success, as my interpretation of the Court ruling is at odds to theirs. My interpretation is that they were only given confirmation that legally set off could be applied in the correct circumstances, but I do not think that a discharged Trust Deed would merit a Courts interpretation of the correct circumstances, as in the Donnelly case.

RBS/Natwest have probably millions of pounds in ill-gotten compensation, from our complaints. It is not their money, they have it in their possession, but it is not theirs.

In any case, they cannot just conclude any of our complaints because we are not willing to take them to Court, they have to distribute the compensation in one way or another as it is not theirs to keep.

Using set off which would have to have a Courts permission. They have to share OUR compensation with the other creditors in the Trust Deed, as it is not ALL their money, by their own argument. How they can do this without contacting our former Trustees to find out who is involved, work out the share, without a Courts permission to look at a discharged Trust Deed?

I doubt they can look at our DISCHARGED Trust Deed without OUR permission either.
They would also have to contact us, showing where the money has gone and showing updated statements from our other creditors balancing the accounts.

In an other scenario they cannot just hold onto OUR compensation, the whole amount has to go somewhere, as again it is not theirs to keep. They have it because of their own doing in the PPI scandal. They have to transfer OUR compensation, that they are refusing to return to us somewhere. Again as it is technically OUR money, we would have to give permission. It should go anywhere other than in the RBS/Natwest vault.

This is what I feel people should be pointing out to their MP's.
They have compensation due to us because of the PPI scandal.
They are refusing to compensate because of the Trust Deed, something no other Bank has argued.
They want to conclude the complaint unless we take them to Court which they will defend with set off.
Set off has already been refused by a Court involving a Trust Deed.
They are using bully boy tactics, because they know people cannot afford or will not take them to Court.
In any case the compensation is not RBS/Natwests to keep.
They have to do something with this compensation, they have been legally obliged to compensate for their misdoing in the PPI scandal.
The compensation should never be allowed to be retained by RBS/Natwest.

DO NOT LET THEM AWAY WITH THIS BY SILENCE, THE MONEY IS NOT THEIRS TO KEEP EVEN IF THEY DO NOT GIVE IT TO YOU.

An email to your MP will cost you nothing

Robert Devine
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Kevin Mapstone
Trust Deed Expert



4029 Posts

Posted - 20 September 2021 :  11:18:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I wonder whether it might be worth bringing this to the attention of the Financial Conduct Authority? I'm not a lawyer, but it seems that RBS are essentially just ignoring the ruling of the Court. They are applying set off despite the decision being that in order to do so they would need to apply to court to have the Trust Deed reopened first, if I understand correctly. Given that the FCA regulate this sector, shouldn't they have a problem with RBS flouting a Supreme Court judgement and applying set-off regardless?

Recommended Partner & Trust Deed Expert - Ask me for help setting up a Scottish Trust Deed

Edited by - Kevin Mapstone on 20 September 2021 11:23:24
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head-just-above-water
Advanced Contributor

81 Posts

Posted - 20 September 2021 :  12:04:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It's very strange that rbs and it highest holders of office ie Alison Rose is willing to willfully disobey a process or order of the court. The legal name for this is contempt of court and it's the head of a company who is personally liable for the actions of their subordinates.

I wonder how the courts would see this.

Hjaw
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dev61
Contributor

10 Posts

Posted - 20 September 2021 :  18:50:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Kevin

As suggested I have also opened a case with the FCA, see below.


You are no doubt aware of the RBS/Natwest Supreme Court cases involving refusing to reimburse former customers who were in a Trust Deed.
The last case, in which they lost, they applied for set off the compensation through the Court, by applying to reopen the Trust Deed. As part of the case they requested for it to be confirmed that set off was a legal action they could pursue, this was answered by Lady Wolffe, confirming that it is a legal pursuit but it would be at the Courts discretion on the circumstances of the case if it was to be granted. In this case, set off was refused by Lady Wolffe as there was “cogent reasons” to refuse the reduction sought. I would regard it as bearing unduly harshly on the debtor, or it being “unjust and inconvenient” to reopen a discharged Trust Deed.
Since this Court decision, RBS/Natwest have been using this Court decision as a ruling in their favour, to say to anyone who still has a complaint and was in a Trust Deed that they would seek set off.
To me this is flouting a Supreme Court ruling to their own interpretation.
Their response to customers is they will seek through the Courts to apply set off at the expense to the customer, or they will conclude the complaint. When you refuse to have the complaint concluded, they change their tactic to say you will have to take us to Court where we will defend our case with set off.
This is just bully boy tactics as they know customers cannot afford to take them to court or are not willing to do so.
On the other hand, if people just let this go, RBS/Natwest will have I presume millions of pounds of irresponsibly gained money, through the PPI scandal, via compensation that should go to customers, not stay in their vault.
Either way this money is not RBS/Natwests.
If it is set off it must be shared by all creditors in the Trust Deed, not just held by RBS/Natwest.
The customers accounts also need updated to show this.
They cannot do this without going to Court to ask permission.
If it is not set off, they certainly cannot keep the money, it is not theirs, they have it by defrauding customers in the PPI scandal. They must do something with the whole amount of the compensation if it not shared in set off, not just conclude the complaint an keep the assets.
I would like to inform you there are thousands of customers in the same position, and numerous fighting this argument.
I myself have taken this to the First Minister of Scotland's office who advised me to contact my MP, which I did.
He is now dealing with the next response from RBS/Natwest on my behalf, as they are now not responding, including direct emails to the CEO Alison Rose.
I feel this is an FCA complaint about one of the banking institutes you authorise. No other Bank or company has argued PPI compensation with regards to a customer in a Trust Deed, they paid out responsibly as the PPI scandal was their own doing.
I have been arguing this complaint for almost 9 years.
RBS/Natwest have failed in their argument in every Court ruling, yet they are flouting the Courts decisions. They have spent thousands of pounds of customers money appealing these decisions, pointed out by Lady Wolffe as a paltry sum to the customer considering the cost of the Court proceedings spent by RBS/Natwest.

They need brought to task for this scandal.


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Bacardibill
Frequent Contributor

27 Posts

Posted - 08 October 2021 :  12:24:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My recent complaint to the FCA was rejected as usual, they pushed the problem onto Accountants In Bankruptcy based in Ayrshire, gave me an e mail address to raise my complaint there.............aib@aib.gov.uk
The fight continues !!!
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dev61
Contributor

10 Posts

Posted - 09 October 2021 :  18:19:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Did the same bacardibill.
I've also now passed to the AiB.
Was noted by the FCA that that they were interested in knowing how banks that they authorised were behaving.
I think the more edtablishments know about this scandal the better.
They have not responded with any updates to my MP to date.
I just keep pointing out this compensation money for their doing before i went into a trust deed, and possibly could have prevented me having to make such a life changing decision.
It will never be their money in any case, its not theirs to keep, even if i dont take them to court. It is my compensation and they must involve me with anything they want to and I'm not accepting set off.
They have published profits for 2021 at almost 2 billion pounds, bailed out by public money, and they cannot compensate like all other banks for their wrong doing in the PPI scandal
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Bacardibill
Frequent Contributor

27 Posts

Posted - 16 October 2021 :  09:22:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Again another negative response from AIB, they say they can only assist with people with existing Trust Deeds not those been discharged.
Where to next !!!!
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maverick267
Advanced Contributor

147 Posts

Posted - 16 October 2021 :  13:02:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
been discharged for 4 years now tired gb ppi reclaimers and got told even if we get ppi back it must goto your trustee even though your discharged from a trust deed why i never bothered to try an reclaim think its al too late now anyway?
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dev61
Contributor

10 Posts

Posted - 16 October 2021 :  16:18:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I haven't had a reply from the AiB since requesting more details to find my Trust Deed, discharged 2012, been over a week now, although they know I have contacted the first ministers office and my MP is on the case also. I might get a more detailed reply.
RBS/Natwest have replied to my MP with the same rubbish as we have been provided. Claiming a successful result from the last case, failing to point out they lost the case because of a Trust Deed.
They had the audacity, to send to my MP as the ruling was 72 pages long, he would be better reading the summary of the ruling in the pro bank, Tory newspaper the Scotsman and provided a link.
I replied to my MP pointing out this was not a successful ruling only clarifying by law they could request set off, but was refused because of the Trust Deed.
I also sent him the full 72 page ruling asking him to show to a lawyer for their interpretation, if this was such a successful ruling for RBS/Natwest.
Involve your MP's.
Maverick: that's nonsense from that claims company, your trustee does not exist as they have been discharged also. Your trustee would not want anything to do with any compensation now, the funds have been distributed.
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dev61
Contributor

10 Posts

Posted - 15 November 2021 :  12:38:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi BacardiBill
Similar response from the AiB that they had no jurisdiction over a discharged Trust Deed, although I did find their response amicable.
They did check my Trust Deed and noted:

'I have looked into what data we have on your discharge back in August 2012 and I can find no errors, omissions or evidence of maladministration mostly by virtue of PPI not having been a factor at that time.'

Which I have passed to my MP

They also noted I was not alone in this complaint with a few complaints and mentioning Forums online regarding this complaint, so it is out there.

I have also seen a very lengthy response from the litigation team to my MP, saying no more than their usual blah, blah that the last Court ruling was a success. I have replied at length also, disputing and arguing their points.
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head-just-above-water
Advanced Contributor

81 Posts

Posted - 15 November 2021 :  13:08:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I got three letters from rbs saying they have now set off the ppi even though I did not agree and they are basically saying they received no money from the trust deed even though my trustee have shown me the proof they put in a claim and got the lions share. So I have emailed the court of season to point out that rbs have disregard the order of the court that says they need to raise an action to claim set off in the cases of completed and discharged trust deeds. Will wait to here back.

Hjaw
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MrBlue32
New Member

5 Posts

Posted - 05 December 2021 :  18:50:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
[i]Originally posted by head-just-above-water[/i]
[br]I got three letters from rbs saying they have now set off the ppi even though I did not agree and they are basically saying they received no money from the trust deed even though my trustee have shown me the proof they put in a claim and got the lions share. So I have emailed the court of season to point out that rbs have disregard the order of the court that says they need to raise an action to claim set off in the cases of completed and discharged trust deeds. Will wait to here back.

Hjaw



Same has happened to me. They have sent out letters stating that they have transferred all PPI Monies that i am due to the outstanding debt. (Kind of defeats why a trust-deed exists, if this is what they are allowed to do)
Also, it's a farce, that banks are ordered by their regulator to pay consumers for cheating them in the first place, then they use that money to pay themselves.
I have written to the FCA and will see what their response is going to be.

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