Trust Deed Forum - RBS PPI Claim After Trust Deed - 2019
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candlewick
Advanced Contributor

338 Posts

Posted - 19 May 2020 :  21:55:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Putting the focus back on RBS v Donnelly, there's an interesting article/analysis in the current edition of the Edinburgh Law Review. The title is "Insolvency Set-Off, Discharged Debts and Protected Trust Deeds: Royal Bank of Scotland Plc v Donnelly".

The authors also included a draft version in their reply to the 'Protected Trust Deeds Inquiry - Call For Views' (TDA posted about that Inquiry back in November last year, when the call for views went out). The reply and the draft analysis have been published on the Scottish Parliament website, so anyone can read it.

If people are interested in other aspects of protected trust deeds, the other written responses to the Inquiry are also on that website and cover a lot of ground.

For those who are only/mainly interested in the RBS/PPI issue, the analysis mentioned at the start of this post, and this forum's own article on the subject, are well worth a read.
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Kayak
Advanced Contributor

72 Posts

Posted - 20 May 2020 :  09:24:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanjs for that candlewick. I take it to see the full article you have to pay?
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candlewick
Advanced Contributor

338 Posts

Posted - 20 May 2020 :  10:19:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
To see it on that website, you have to pay.

But the draft version, which isn't substantively different, is available on the Scottish parliament website - which is free to access .

If you search for economy, energy and fair work committee, and protected trust deeds inquiry, you can keep clicking through until you find the link to the 'written submissions'.

The analysis is part of the submission from the university of Aberdeen (short version of the name)
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TDA (Debt Adviser)
Trust Deed Expert



13520 Posts

Posted - 20 May 2020 :  11:30:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks candlewick.

I've just read it. I think I even understood parts of it!

Qualified Debt Adviser & Forum Administrator - Ask me anything about Trust Deeds    
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Kayak
Advanced Contributor

72 Posts

Posted - 22 May 2020 :  20:59:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Read it for free here:
https://digitalpublications.parliament.scot/Committees/Report/EEFW/2020/5/21/Protected-Trust-Deeds
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candlewick
Advanced Contributor

338 Posts

Posted - 22 May 2020 :  22:04:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ah, I thought we weren't supposed to use links - otherwise I'd have done that rather than trying to explain it in a 'look for this, then click on that' way

Kayak's link takes you to the article by a different route through the Scottish Parliament website - and it's really helpful as I didn't realise the Committee had now published their report from the Protected Trust Deed Inquiry (just yesterday). I'll need to have a read

But, going back to the RBS v Donnelly analysis, if you click on Annex B - Written Evidence in the links on the left-hand side of the page, you'll get the list of written submissions.

Click on the link for Working Party of the Centre for Scots Law at the University of Aberdeen and you'll get their full response to the Inquiry, including the draft article.

There's also some interesting stuff in the other responses.
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Kayak
Advanced Contributor

72 Posts

Posted - 24 May 2020 :  16:19:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That was extremely interesting candlewick. If my interpretation is correct unless they can prove fraud, RBS case will be found in favour of Mrs Donnelly.
In my own circumstances, i was discharged before knowledge of PPI was about. I also sent an email to my TD company and they acknowledged my PPI claim and said it would be my money as i was discharged. This was several months after my discharge, and it was a guy at work that told me he had applied and got £££. It was only looking through old paperwork and talking to an RBS employee that i realised they had mis-sold the insurance to me as my work covered my pay 100% if i went ill, and RBS knew this.I will read more of them, however the Aberdeen University one is an eye opener and i cant see how RBS can win their case.
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candlewick
Advanced Contributor

338 Posts

Posted - 25 May 2020 :  02:25:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't think the Aberdeen University paper is meant to be read as a prediction of what will happen, Kayak - and I think we need to bear that in mind, in fairness to its authors.

But I did think it was an excellent summary of the arguments being put forward by both sides and the court outcomes to date.

I'd also say it's more finely balanced than the way you've read it. It's not necessarily just about fraud. The Introduction to the paper refers to one of the points in the postscript to the Supreme Court judgment in Dooneen. Here's the first paragraph of that postscript in full:

"This is scarcely a satisfactory outcome. An asset which vested in the trustee for the benefit of the creditors and ought to have been applied to payment of the debts due to them, will instead be paid to the debtor, merely because the trust was administered in ignorance of its existence. One might question whether the law is powerless to provide a remedy in this situation."

The Supreme Court didn't go on to consider that aspect in detail, because it hadn't been asked to do so. But it is an area that might come up in other cases. How successful that would be when balanced against the other points summarised in the University of Aberdeen paper is pretty much what we're all waiting to find out!

As for the information in the Protected Trust Deeds Inquiry, if your main interest is the PPI issue you might not find the other submissions of as much interest as the University of Aberdeen one.

The final report doesn't really talk about PPI either - it's mainly concerned with the nuts and bolts of how TDs works, including the lead-generator/'mis-selling' aspect that has come up many times on the forum.

Long story short - most of the Inquiry submissions and the report are very interesting from the general TD perspective, but not so much from the PPI perspective - that's why I took the liberty of starting a new thread about it.
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Kayak
Advanced Contributor

72 Posts

Posted - 26 May 2020 :  11:52:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I asked RBS for an update and this is the reply i got today:
“The bank has recently lodged its application to appeal directly to the Supreme Court and any decision may take a number of months. Unfortunately, due to the Covid crisis, the Courts have been experiencing significant delays. As such, there is no update at this time. It is, of course, open to you to contact the Supreme Court directly, should you wish to verify this information but otherwise, we will be in touch in due course”

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Luke4630
Advanced Contributor

117 Posts

Posted - 02 June 2020 :  19:08:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi all small update on FOS complaint still on going ,email today from them , They were very apologetic and offered £100 for upset they have caused with my complaint I currently have with them , I will forward this money to a good cause

Edited by - Luke4630 on 02 June 2020 19:08:30
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Duckbill
Regular Contributor

20 Posts

Posted - 02 June 2020 :  22:18:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Nice one Luke4630 (let us all know your complaint and we can all get £100 for good causes)!!
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Mb77
Contributor

11 Posts

Posted - 04 June 2020 :  18:04:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi
I have received a letter today that I have found extremely distressing from RBS-DMO. It basically came out of the blue and gives a breakdown of the amount that went into the trust deed and the dividends I paid. It says that the bank made a commercial decision to write off the debt with a balance outstanding and the final line states “we can confirm the outstanding balance to date is £x L,to which you still owe”.
I was discharged from my trust deed on 30th may 2013, the trustee was discharged on 17/11/17 and I have no idea why all of a sudden they are writing to me saying I owe them money. That’s not true I actually do it is because it is the exact amount they owe me in ppi. Funny that! However irrespective of that the letter is really distressing as it reads like I owe them money and so I called the number on the letter and they said I failed security so couldn’t talk to me as the info they have is my old address however they wrote to me at my current address. They also put me through security, then put me on hold to read my file and then came back on and said I had failed security. They said I would have to phone the ppi team. I called the ppi team and they said that it was different systems and couldn’t help nor could they update my details with DMO.
The trust deed episode was an extremely distressing time in my life for other reasons in addition to the actual trust deed and therefore I have found receiving this letter really upsetting. What does this now mean? Is this something I need to worry about?
Sorry for the lengthy post
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TDA (Debt Adviser)
Trust Deed Expert



13520 Posts

Posted - 04 June 2020 :  18:11:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Mb77.

If you completed your trust deed, and these accounts were included in it, there's nothing they can do to directly recover funds from you.

You really don't need to worry about this happening, though I appreciate it's easier for me to write this than it is for you to stop worrying after receiving this letter.

It sounds very much like this is paperwork connected to their position regarding PPI claim set-off against old debts that were included in trust deeds.

Qualified Debt Adviser & Forum Administrator - Ask me anything about Trust Deeds    
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Luke4630
Advanced Contributor

117 Posts

Posted - 05 June 2020 :  11:04:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi mb77 lawyer told me keep hold off offers upheld and sent to you ,in my opinion rbs didn't make a commercial decision to write of debt ,they made a decision to enter into trust deed along with other creditors .utter nonsense ,don't pay any attention to there letters ,as per court case they are due you the ppi money
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Kayak
Advanced Contributor

72 Posts

Posted - 05 June 2020 :  11:08:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Mb77, i received letters years after from RBS. Their internal communication is horrendous, these to at the time caused me no end of stress. I contacted my TD advisor who in turn contacted RBS to stop the harrassment. At one point they contacted a Debt Recovery agencey. As TDA says if its included in your TD, they are up a creek without a paddle.
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