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 RBS PPI Claim After Trust Deed - 2019

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T O P I C    R E V I E W
Bacardibill Posted - 12 August 2019 : 18:42:25
For Info : Today I had a very dissapointing response from the FO, I had a complaint with them with regards RBS offsetting PPI monies against previous trust deed debt despite being discharged.
The FO hae gone with RBS despite the Donnelly case and up and coming October court case...........comment from my FO letter :

"I appreciate that you granted a trust deed and were
subsequently discharged, but I don’t think that makes a difference. I don’t think it would be fair to ask RBS to repay you the extra you paid for PPI that was offset,so your claim is denied"

I would be intetested to hear if any other forum members have had a response from FO with there existing claims about offset.
15   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
dev61 Posted - 14 April 2022 : 12:23:44
I have received the same response sent to my MP, and been advised to seek legal advice, which I have done.
I feel others should do the same. It may be an idea if we can get a Law firm to take this on behalf of all.
I feel the ruling has been flouted, and only the parts that they like are being used in their argument, ignoring all the other more lengthy parts of the ruling that apply to our complaints.
I feel they cannot keep your compensation, which you are objecting to them having, without going to Court.

From my own perspective, though not a lawyer, they cannot off set any monies due by their own argument, without reduction of the discharged Trust Deed. That is the way I am reading the last ruling.
ALL of the compensation is not theirs to keep if they are saying it is owed in the Trust Deed. It must be shared with any other creditors in the Trust Deed. The only way they can have the Trust Deed reduced is through the Courts, and the last ruling stated it would have 'cogent reasons' to refuse the reduction as it would be 'unduly harsh and inconvenient' on the debtor to reopen a discharged Trust Deed after so many years placing the debtor back into insolvency.
I'm certainly not giving up.
I feel I would not have needed to go into a Trust Deed if they had not taken so much from me in mis-sold PPI.
If they put me back into a position I would have been in before they took the PPI, I could have paid my creditors in full.
MrBlue32 Posted - 13 April 2022 : 10:50:20
[i]Originally posted by kdyguy[/i]
[br]Just wondering if there has been any change to RBS stance? I have still received no correspondence from them since last year.

RBS wrote to me stating they have allocated all PPI monies to the old debt and that they are not willing to send any more correspondence and have closed the case. They sent me a cheque for what was left (which was not much!)
I have since written to the Financial Ombudsman, who are currently looking through my case
kdyguy Posted - 25 March 2022 : 20:15:43
Just wondering if there has been any change to RBS stance? I have still received no correspondence from them since last year.
MrBlue32 Posted - 05 December 2021 : 18:50:17
[i]Originally posted by head-just-above-water[/i]
[br]I got three letters from rbs saying they have now set off the ppi even though I did not agree and they are basically saying they received no money from the trust deed even though my trustee have shown me the proof they put in a claim and got the lions share. So I have emailed the court of season to point out that rbs have disregard the order of the court that says they need to raise an action to claim set off in the cases of completed and discharged trust deeds. Will wait to here back.


Same has happened to me. They have sent out letters stating that they have transferred all PPI Monies that i am due to the outstanding debt. (Kind of defeats why a trust-deed exists, if this is what they are allowed to do)
Also, it's a farce, that banks are ordered by their regulator to pay consumers for cheating them in the first place, then they use that money to pay themselves.
I have written to the FCA and will see what their response is going to be.

head-just-above-water Posted - 15 November 2021 : 13:08:26
I got three letters from rbs saying they have now set off the ppi even though I did not agree and they are basically saying they received no money from the trust deed even though my trustee have shown me the proof they put in a claim and got the lions share. So I have emailed the court of season to point out that rbs have disregard the order of the court that says they need to raise an action to claim set off in the cases of completed and discharged trust deeds. Will wait to here back.

dev61 Posted - 15 November 2021 : 12:38:32
Hi BacardiBill
Similar response from the AiB that they had no jurisdiction over a discharged Trust Deed, although I did find their response amicable.
They did check my Trust Deed and noted:

'I have looked into what data we have on your discharge back in August 2012 and I can find no errors, omissions or evidence of maladministration mostly by virtue of PPI not having been a factor at that time.'

Which I have passed to my MP

They also noted I was not alone in this complaint with a few complaints and mentioning Forums online regarding this complaint, so it is out there.

I have also seen a very lengthy response from the litigation team to my MP, saying no more than their usual blah, blah that the last Court ruling was a success. I have replied at length also, disputing and arguing their points.
dev61 Posted - 16 October 2021 : 16:18:30
I haven't had a reply from the AiB since requesting more details to find my Trust Deed, discharged 2012, been over a week now, although they know I have contacted the first ministers office and my MP is on the case also. I might get a more detailed reply.
RBS/Natwest have replied to my MP with the same rubbish as we have been provided. Claiming a successful result from the last case, failing to point out they lost the case because of a Trust Deed.
They had the audacity, to send to my MP as the ruling was 72 pages long, he would be better reading the summary of the ruling in the pro bank, Tory newspaper the Scotsman and provided a link.
I replied to my MP pointing out this was not a successful ruling only clarifying by law they could request set off, but was refused because of the Trust Deed.
I also sent him the full 72 page ruling asking him to show to a lawyer for their interpretation, if this was such a successful ruling for RBS/Natwest.
Involve your MP's.
Maverick: that's nonsense from that claims company, your trustee does not exist as they have been discharged also. Your trustee would not want anything to do with any compensation now, the funds have been distributed.
maverick267 Posted - 16 October 2021 : 13:02:19
been discharged for 4 years now tired gb ppi reclaimers and got told even if we get ppi back it must goto your trustee even though your discharged from a trust deed why i never bothered to try an reclaim think its al too late now anyway?
Bacardibill Posted - 16 October 2021 : 09:22:46
Again another negative response from AIB, they say they can only assist with people with existing Trust Deeds not those been discharged.
Where to next !!!!
dev61 Posted - 09 October 2021 : 18:19:20
Did the same bacardibill.
I've also now passed to the AiB.
Was noted by the FCA that that they were interested in knowing how banks that they authorised were behaving.
I think the more edtablishments know about this scandal the better.
They have not responded with any updates to my MP to date.
I just keep pointing out this compensation money for their doing before i went into a trust deed, and possibly could have prevented me having to make such a life changing decision.
It will never be their money in any case, its not theirs to keep, even if i dont take them to court. It is my compensation and they must involve me with anything they want to and I'm not accepting set off.
They have published profits for 2021 at almost 2 billion pounds, bailed out by public money, and they cannot compensate like all other banks for their wrong doing in the PPI scandal
Bacardibill Posted - 08 October 2021 : 12:24:01
My recent complaint to the FCA was rejected as usual, they pushed the problem onto Accountants In Bankruptcy based in Ayrshire, gave me an e mail address to raise my complaint
The fight continues !!!
dev61 Posted - 20 September 2021 : 18:50:14
Hi Kevin

As suggested I have also opened a case with the FCA, see below.

You are no doubt aware of the RBS/Natwest Supreme Court cases involving refusing to reimburse former customers who were in a Trust Deed.
The last case, in which they lost, they applied for set off the compensation through the Court, by applying to reopen the Trust Deed. As part of the case they requested for it to be confirmed that set off was a legal action they could pursue, this was answered by Lady Wolffe, confirming that it is a legal pursuit but it would be at the Courts discretion on the circumstances of the case if it was to be granted. In this case, set off was refused by Lady Wolffe as there was “cogent reasons” to refuse the reduction sought. I would regard it as bearing unduly harshly on the debtor, or it being “unjust and inconvenient” to reopen a discharged Trust Deed.
Since this Court decision, RBS/Natwest have been using this Court decision as a ruling in their favour, to say to anyone who still has a complaint and was in a Trust Deed that they would seek set off.
To me this is flouting a Supreme Court ruling to their own interpretation.
Their response to customers is they will seek through the Courts to apply set off at the expense to the customer, or they will conclude the complaint. When you refuse to have the complaint concluded, they change their tactic to say you will have to take us to Court where we will defend our case with set off.
This is just bully boy tactics as they know customers cannot afford to take them to court or are not willing to do so.
On the other hand, if people just let this go, RBS/Natwest will have I presume millions of pounds of irresponsibly gained money, through the PPI scandal, via compensation that should go to customers, not stay in their vault.
Either way this money is not RBS/Natwests.
If it is set off it must be shared by all creditors in the Trust Deed, not just held by RBS/Natwest.
The customers accounts also need updated to show this.
They cannot do this without going to Court to ask permission.
If it is not set off, they certainly cannot keep the money, it is not theirs, they have it by defrauding customers in the PPI scandal. They must do something with the whole amount of the compensation if it not shared in set off, not just conclude the complaint an keep the assets.
I would like to inform you there are thousands of customers in the same position, and numerous fighting this argument.
I myself have taken this to the First Minister of Scotland's office who advised me to contact my MP, which I did.
He is now dealing with the next response from RBS/Natwest on my behalf, as they are now not responding, including direct emails to the CEO Alison Rose.
I feel this is an FCA complaint about one of the banking institutes you authorise. No other Bank or company has argued PPI compensation with regards to a customer in a Trust Deed, they paid out responsibly as the PPI scandal was their own doing.
I have been arguing this complaint for almost 9 years.
RBS/Natwest have failed in their argument in every Court ruling, yet they are flouting the Courts decisions. They have spent thousands of pounds of customers money appealing these decisions, pointed out by Lady Wolffe as a paltry sum to the customer considering the cost of the Court proceedings spent by RBS/Natwest.

They need brought to task for this scandal.

head-just-above-water Posted - 20 September 2021 : 12:04:26
It's very strange that rbs and it highest holders of office ie Alison Rose is willing to willfully disobey a process or order of the court. The legal name for this is contempt of court and it's the head of a company who is personally liable for the actions of their subordinates.

I wonder how the courts would see this.

Kevin Mapstone Posted - 20 September 2021 : 11:18:22
I wonder whether it might be worth bringing this to the attention of the Financial Conduct Authority? I'm not a lawyer, but it seems that RBS are essentially just ignoring the ruling of the Court. They are applying set off despite the decision being that in order to do so they would need to apply to court to have the Trust Deed reopened first, if I understand correctly. Given that the FCA regulate this sector, shouldn't they have a problem with RBS flouting a Supreme Court judgement and applying set-off regardless?
dev61 Posted - 19 September 2021 : 12:30:59
Hi Mr Blue32
I don't think anyone should be giving up on this or allowing the door to close.
RBS/Natwest are wrong.
That is why I have contacted the First Ministers Office who directed me to my SNP MP.
This is a scandal they should not be allowed to do, and I feel the more MP's who have this on their desk the more focus will be on our complaint.

I cannot afford to take RBS/Natwest to Court either, but I am not going to stop fighting. I feel anyone who takes them to Court, will have a very good chance of success, as my interpretation of the Court ruling is at odds to theirs. My interpretation is that they were only given confirmation that legally set off could be applied in the correct circumstances, but I do not think that a discharged Trust Deed would merit a Courts interpretation of the correct circumstances, as in the Donnelly case.

RBS/Natwest have probably millions of pounds in ill-gotten compensation, from our complaints. It is not their money, they have it in their possession, but it is not theirs.

In any case, they cannot just conclude any of our complaints because we are not willing to take them to Court, they have to distribute the compensation in one way or another as it is not theirs to keep.

Using set off which would have to have a Courts permission. They have to share OUR compensation with the other creditors in the Trust Deed, as it is not ALL their money, by their own argument. How they can do this without contacting our former Trustees to find out who is involved, work out the share, without a Courts permission to look at a discharged Trust Deed?

I doubt they can look at our DISCHARGED Trust Deed without OUR permission either.
They would also have to contact us, showing where the money has gone and showing updated statements from our other creditors balancing the accounts.

In an other scenario they cannot just hold onto OUR compensation, the whole amount has to go somewhere, as again it is not theirs to keep. They have it because of their own doing in the PPI scandal. They have to transfer OUR compensation, that they are refusing to return to us somewhere. Again as it is technically OUR money, we would have to give permission. It should go anywhere other than in the RBS/Natwest vault.

This is what I feel people should be pointing out to their MP's.
They have compensation due to us because of the PPI scandal.
They are refusing to compensate because of the Trust Deed, something no other Bank has argued.
They want to conclude the complaint unless we take them to Court which they will defend with set off.
Set off has already been refused by a Court involving a Trust Deed.
They are using bully boy tactics, because they know people cannot afford or will not take them to Court.
In any case the compensation is not RBS/Natwests to keep.
They have to do something with this compensation, they have been legally obliged to compensate for their misdoing in the PPI scandal.
The compensation should never be allowed to be retained by RBS/Natwest.


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