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TDA (Debt Adviser)
Trust Deed Expert



12985 Posts

Posted - 07 February 2019 :  09:33:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi RBSB.

With apologies, if you're looking to make a technical argument to Lloyds I'd suggest getting advice from a solicitor with a knowledge of insolvency law.

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RockBottomSolidBase
Advanced Contributor

317 Posts

Posted - 07 February 2019 :  10:06:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks, I donít know if Iím making a technical arguement . I just need to know if itís as straightforward as Ď in accordance with bankruptcy law/administration process in Scotland Lloydís were not entitled to apply for an inhibition and are now required to instruct its removal. Is that the crux of it?
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Kevin Mapstone
Trust Deed Expert



3753 Posts

Posted - 07 February 2019 :  10:42:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Your liability for the debt to Lloyds was extinguished upon your discharge from sequestration and as such your argument would be that the renewal of the inhibition by Lloyds was not legally competent and it should be removed.

As stated previously though, we are not legally qualified and you should look to get assistance from a solicitor who specialises in this area.


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Swandog
Advanced Contributor

200 Posts

Posted - 07 February 2019 :  14:08:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I agree with what TDA and Kevin has advised.

I think it's now at the point that you would need to raise a formal complaint in writing. Someone senior at the bank will need to them deal with this in writing rather than over the telephone.

Explain in your letter that you were discharged from the Sequestration and that you are no longer liable for the debt. If you have paperwork regarding your Sequestration send this on too. I'd see what kind of response you get and if you need to take it further then may be an idea to speak with a solicitor who has insolvency / Sequestration experience.
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RockBottomSolidBase
Advanced Contributor

317 Posts

Posted - 07 February 2019 :  17:57:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks all, I will need to go with formal complaint, expect that will take weeks and the sale cannot be saved.

As I go forward, I am aware that I am unsure on what processes would normally be in play to prevent this?

Should Lloyds or their lawyers have been aware/ made aware before/when lodging an inhibition that the sequestration should prevent it?

Should ROS normally comment on sequestration when inhibitions are lodged?

Should a trustee normally contact LLoyds when inhibition was notified (a copy was sent by us to the trustee who replied stating that it would be dealt with as part of the sequestration)

And I feel sure our conveyancing solicitor could reasonably be expected to carry out searches prior to the day of completion.

What a mess, a lot of fees generated by a lot of parties and no clear route to resolve it, very frustrated






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TDA (Debt Adviser)
Trust Deed Expert



12985 Posts

Posted - 07 February 2019 :  18:06:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think the searches are generally a step taken towards the end of a transaction.

Presumably if Lloyds admit fault, you'll be looking to recover your costs and losses from them?

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Edited by - TDA (Debt Adviser) on 07 February 2019 18:11:04
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RockBottomSolidBase
Advanced Contributor

317 Posts

Posted - 08 February 2019 :  13:19:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks TDA, I think you're right, it was very last minute, as in I was told at 4.50pm on the entry date that the sale was not concluding.

I'm not sure how to quantify losses as I have yet to be billed etc but I definitely will pursue costs.

Still on the trail of resolution, removal of the actual inhibition at this point.

My comment about all the fees-charging entities was really just my frustration that so many vareties of 'professional services' have no real interest or ability in helping identify what the glitches were at any stage.
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RockBottomSolidBase
Advanced Contributor

317 Posts

Posted - 19 February 2019 :  17:19:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

I have spoken with a solicitor on Friday re Lloyds inhibition. She advised as others did that the inhibition shouldn't have been lodged. In processing a complaint, I need to catalogue what has been asked of/ communicated to Lloyds and when.

I've asked the IP to send me a summary of dates and calls to Lloyds/ Ennova Law, and the final position?

Asked the IP to confirm;
Sequestration effective 19/12/2012
Personal Discharge 19/12/2013
Trustee discharge -please advise the correct date ?
Lloyds inhibition applied 05/06/14

Lloyds were included in the creditors at the time of our sequestration
A Copy inhibition was forwarded to the trustee in 2014 - June, I think when he advised he would deal with it and that it would be dealt with in the sequestration. I forwarded those emails to the IP (Mark actually said the trust deed but I assume meant the sequestration as we never had a trust deed)

In general, I have been doing a lot of reading to try to understand the processes involved and understand that an inhibition ceases after 5 years if not renewed, is that correct? My concern is that the 5 yr period from Lloyds inhibition is coming to an end and I worry they could renew as easily as they have lodged this original inhibition

Lloyds having an inhibition appears to have placed them in a priority position over other creditors which I understood to be against regulations in terms of applying funds for distribution - irrelevant as there were no funds but I'm trying to learn what has happened.

Would Lloyds have been able to achieve payment via this inhibition if our sale had gone ahead and there were funds available, even although the sequestration was in place and other creditors were owed when the inhibition was applied?

we really are in a mental and financial limbo so long as we are prevented from leaving property investment behind us.
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candlewick
Advanced Contributor

317 Posts

Posted - 19 February 2019 :  23:27:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What a nightmare RBSB!

If you don't already have a certificate of discharge from your bankruptcy, might that help? You can call AiB about it. They might also be able to confirm the date your trustee was discharged.

It's probably worth asking!
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Sharon Toal
Trust Deed Expert



351 Posts

Posted - 20 February 2019 :  11:30:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Rockbottom

Inhibitions that are placed on by a creditor lasts for 5 years. The inhibition can be renewed after this 5 years if the debt still remains but as you correctly stated, must be renewed before the expiry of the 5 year period.

However under a sequestration process, they are not able to renew it as sequestration deals with the debt.

It appears this may just be ad administration error on the banks part and hopefully this should be resolved quickly.



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Sharon Toal
Trust Deed Expert



351 Posts

Posted - 20 February 2019 :  11:31:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Sharon Toal[/i]
[br]Rockbottom

Inhibitions that are placed on by a creditor lasts for 5 years. The inhibition can be renewed after this 5 years if the debt still remains but as you correctly stated, must be renewed before the expiry of the 5 year period.

However under a sequestration process, they are not able to renew it as sequestration deals with the debt.

It appears this may just be an administration error on the banks part and hopefully this should be resolved quickly.





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RockBottomSolidBase
Advanced Contributor

317 Posts

Posted - 20 February 2019 :  12:05:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Candlewick We do have a certificate for sequestration and the discharge, just needed to get it straight when the trustee was effectively finished with their administration. It seems that there may have been no contact with LLoyds by the IP but seemingly that's neither here nor there. I'm told Lloyds should have checked and seen that the sequestration was in place, shouldn't have lodged an inhibition, should remove it and shouldn't renew it. My challenge is that Lloyds see it differently on all shoulds/shouldn'ts

Sharon, the inhibition was lodged whilst we were in sequestration, the loan was one of our creditors when we entered sequestration.
It is, based on all comments and advice, a mistake, admin or otherwise.

The reality is it has stopped a sale from completing due to it's presence and stops any other sale being possible whilst it's there.

No-one at Lloyds is accepting responsibility for it or for removing it.
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Sharon Toal
Trust Deed Expert



351 Posts

Posted - 20 February 2019 :  12:18:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

Rockbottom

Hopefully it will be resolved sooner rather than later. Your solicitor will be able to complete a judgement search that would provide details of the solicitor that lodged the inhibition.

S

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RockBottomSolidBase
Advanced Contributor

317 Posts

Posted - 20 February 2019 :  12:37:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Sharon, that's helpful, no-one has mentioned that yet.
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